Tristan

mugoikyoushu
2003-11-14 01:48:14 (UTC)

interesting convo...

Ninjassassin0 [3:20 PM]: hail marburger
Ninjassassin0 [3:20 PM]: hail admeral pen pen
Zertaoul [3:20 PM]: wats up man
Zertaoul [3:20 PM]: how's it going
Ninjassassin0 [3:20 PM]: nuttin much
Ninjassassin0 [3:20 PM]: its going pretty well
Ninjassassin0 [3:21 PM]: and u?
Zertaoul [3:21 PM]: decent
Zertaoul [3:21 PM]: talking w/ a guy from my kd
Zertaoul [3:21 PM]: its a very intensive unit here
Zertaoul [3:21 PM]: ll
Ninjassassin0 [3:21 PM]: heh
Ninjassassin0 [3:21 PM]: maybe you need ramen, that'll
help anyones mood
Ninjassassin0 [3:22 PM]: hmmm...
Ninjassassin0 [3:22 PM]: what do you think would better
symbolize change, a river or a stream?
Zertaoul [3:22 PM]: a stream is more peace and tranquilty
Zertaoul [3:22 PM]: a river, because it washes away
everything in its path and things begin a new
Ninjassassin0 [3:23 PM]: but thats not how change works,
not on a personal basis rather
Ninjassassin0 [3:23 PM]: I think a stream works best for
an individual
Ninjassassin0 [3:24 PM]: yeah, it can flood and cause a
lot of choices to be made in a flash, however, it is almost
always made up of day to day things that change people
Ninjassassin0 [3:25 PM]: by making choices, building dams
and channels for symbols sake, you can control to a pretty
large extent how your change will happen
Ninjassassin0 [3:26 PM]: the real trials are making your
choices solid, or when it does flood, you're screwed.
Ninjassassin0 [3:26 PM]: what do you think?
Zertaoul [3:27 PM]: it sounds good in theory
Zertaoul [3:27 PM]: but u make it sound like a lone river
in a mountain
Zertaoul [3:27 PM]: when in truth
Zertaoul [3:27 PM]: using the river metaphore again
Zertaoul [3:27 PM]: and stream
Zertaoul [3:28 PM]: while each stream can overflow, they
can also overflow on eachother, so change doesn't just come
from within your existince
Ninjassassin0 [3:28 PM]: you're choices are are your's
based on what is given to you.
Zertaoul [3:29 PM]: if the guy next to you has a major
leak, and it is coming into one of your streams, your
taking on more water. change can be like a torrent,
starting small, and trickling and trickling until its a
tidal wave
Zertaoul [3:29 PM]: right
Zertaoul [3:29 PM]: but where do those th ings come from?
Zertaoul [3:29 PM]: our surroundings, and the ppl around
Zertaoul [3:29 PM]: so our choices must be made on our
surroundings and the ppl around us
Zertaoul [3:29 PM]: and they give to us what they will,
by choice
Ninjassassin0 [3:29 PM]: you choose your surroundings and
the people who around you
Zertaoul [3:30 PM]: but like you said, you choose between
whats given to you
Ninjassassin0 [3:30 PM]: not so much your surroundings,
but the people you are around are completely up to you
Zertaoul [3:30 PM]: not entirely
Zertaoul [3:31 PM]: because if your surroundings are not
up to you
Zertaoul [3:31 PM]: similar types of ppl will start/end
in similar surroundings
Zertaoul [3:31 PM]: therefore, you can't even really
control ppl
Ninjassassin0 [3:31 PM]: aside from teacher or relatives,
and some of them you can choose later on, you can join or
leave most any group of people you wish
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: you can cease contact
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: but can you truly leave/
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: ?
Ninjassassin0 [3:32 PM]: yes
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: that would imply that you cut off ALL
contact with that gruop
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: and its members
Ninjassassin0 [3:32 PM]: it can be done
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: you dont' look at them
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: u don't talk to them
Ninjassassin0 [3:32 PM]: it can be done
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: but your wrong
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: YOU CAN"T
Zertaoul [3:32 PM]: because this is how it works
Zertaoul [3:33 PM]: we'll start a group w/ me, ok?.
Ninjassassin0 [3:33 PM]: k
Zertaoul [3:33 PM]: now
Zertaoul [3:33 PM]: we'll take brandon, tracy, and the
drum line ppl
Zertaoul [3:33 PM]: ok?
Ninjassassin0 [3:33 PM]: k
Zertaoul [3:33 PM]: now... that is a group
Zertaoul [3:33 PM]: but it grows
Zertaoul [3:34 PM]: from me, brandon tracy and the drum
line is connected to various others, such as oz, ziedner,
metzger, and park
Zertaoul [3:34 PM]: now niether is the original group
Zertaoul [3:34 PM]: but a linked set, linked by one, or
more bonds between group members
Zertaoul [3:34 PM]: and so in a way
Zertaoul [3:34 PM]: to cut off contact with the group
tristan
Zertaoul [3:34 PM]: you'd have to stop talking to THE
ENTIRE SCHOOL
Zertaoul [3:35 PM]: now, albeit
Zertaoul [3:35 PM]: you can remove yourself from contact
from certain ppl
Ninjassassin0 [3:35 PM]: classes can be changed, schools
can be changed
Zertaoul [3:35 PM]: but an entire group is hard to do
Zertaoul [3:35 PM]: but even then
Zertaoul [3:35 PM]: it is a very fluid thing
Zertaoul [3:35 PM]: our group works on a beliefe system
Ninjassassin0 [3:36 PM]: no, our group works on an
acceptance system
Zertaoul [3:36 PM]: if we all believe there is one group,
then little subsectors to it, then assaign ppl,, thats how
it is
Zertaoul [3:36 PM]: oh yes, you must earn acceptance, but
that goes without saying
Ninjassassin0 [3:36 PM]: wait you were talking about
something different
Zertaoul [3:36 PM]: not that hard though
Zertaoul [3:36 PM]: yes i was
Ninjassassin0 [3:36 PM]: I ment as a group supporting
members of it
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: the idea of the group itself, who it
contains, is fluid for the very reason of it is connected
through loose bonds of friendship
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: like, a formal group (aka boyscouts)
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: or like a group of friends?
Ninjassassin0 [3:37 PM]: bonds can be broken, made or
remade if needed
Ninjassassin0 [3:37 PM]: friends
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: well there's the thing
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: you CAN"T DESTROY THEM
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: once made, they are there forever
Zertaoul [3:37 PM]: you may forget the preson
Ninjassassin0 [3:37 PM]: you can make it so people won't
want them anymore though
Zertaoul [3:38 PM]: oh thas not hard at all
Zertaoul [3:38 PM]: you can loath the bond
Zertaoul [3:38 PM]: you and the other person could decide
that as friends, you don't really have anything in comman
Zertaoul [3:38 PM]: and decide that while your both good
ppl, you don't really want a friendship that is pointless
Zertaoul [3:38 PM]: like a wire
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: w/ a switch at each end and a
lightbulb in between
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: one, both, or niether can turn the
light on or off
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: but once they put the wire
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: in
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: its there for keeps
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: because those things cant' be removed
Ninjassassin0 [3:39 PM]: a wire can be cut, just like
anything else
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: the wire itself can't be cut
Zertaoul [3:39 PM]: but the connection can be shut off
Ninjassassin0 [3:39 PM]: there are very few thiongs that
are intangable, friendship isn't one of them
Ninjassassin0 [3:40 PM]: things rather
Ninjassassin0 [3:41 PM]: friends can be abandoned,
elimanated, intimidated into leaving, any number of things
can break the bond
Zertaoul [3:41 PM]: maybe in your friendships
Ninjassassin0 [3:41 PM]: the friendship IS the bond
Zertaoul [3:42 PM]: its a type of relationships
Zertaoul [3:42 PM]: it indicates a level of compassion
between two ppl
Ninjassassin0 [3:42 PM]: you may have memories of them,
maybe even know their face or voice if need be, but after a
while, their as dead to you as any courps ever was
Ninjassassin0 [3:43 PM]: holding onto dying memories
kills the holder, and does nothing for the memories
Zertaoul [3:43 PM]: true
Zertaoul [3:43 PM]: but i've managed to maintain a sense
of self through it all
Zertaoul [3:43 PM]: i've been dead a very long time by
that prespective tristan
Ninjassassin0 [3:43 PM]: to some people
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: and yet i'm still myself
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: and still clinging, no matter how
futilly
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: because remember
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: in the end, we all die any way
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: we were BORN TO DIE
Ninjassassin0 [3:44 PM]: no, we were born that we may
have joy
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: so as long i live, any friend that
comes to me for aid can have whatever i have to offer
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: joy?
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: in what?
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: that we know that after x amount of
time we will die?
Zertaoul [3:44 PM]: that we will watch our friends die
Zertaoul [3:45 PM]: our parents die
Ninjassassin0 [3:45 PM]: 'Adam fell that men are, and men
are that they might have joy"
Zertaoul [3:45 PM]: our family die
Ninjassassin0 [3:45 PM]: but there are still good things
in life
Zertaoul [3:45 PM]: maybe
Ninjassassin0 [3:45 PM]: you can't have good without bad
Zertaoul [3:45 PM]: without bad, there is nothing to
measure good against
Zertaoul [3:45 PM]: but
Ninjassassin0 [3:45 PM]: by making choices, you can
assure that your stream meads more or less where you want
to go
Zertaoul [3:45 PM]: when does bad begin to over power
good?
Ninjassassin0 [3:46 PM]: when you let it
Zertaoul [3:46 PM]: yet you've said that we can only
choose from what we are given, correct?
Ninjassassin0 [3:46 PM]: but what were given depends on
past choices and meddeling of others
Ninjassassin0 [3:47 PM]: on your own past choices rather
Zertaoul [3:47 PM]: yest, but those past choices depend
on past choices and the meddling of others
Zertaoul [3:47 PM]: to a point where you never made the
choice
Zertaoul [3:47 PM]: it was already made
Zertaoul [3:47 PM]: all thats left is for us to pick
between the lesser of two evils
Ninjassassin0 [3:47 PM]: not true
Ninjassassin0 [3:48 PM]: "no man can walk in the shadow
so long that he may not find the light"
Ninjassassin0 [3:48 PM]: at the very least I think that
what the quote from the Children of the Light
Ninjassassin0 [3:48 PM]: Heh, they're good for something
after all!
Zertaoul [3:48 PM]: yes it is the quote
Zertaoul [3:48 PM]: lol
Zertaoul [3:48 PM]: true
Zertaoul [3:48 PM]: no man can walk in the shadow long
enough that he can't find the light
Zertaoul [3:48 PM]: BUT
Zertaoul [3:49 PM]: walk in the shadow long enough... and
will he be able to return to the light?
Ninjassassin0 [3:49 PM]: where is there a but?
Ninjassassin0 [3:49 PM]: of course
Zertaoul [3:49 PM]: finding the light isn't hard
Zertaoul [3:49 PM]: really?
Ninjassassin0 [3:49 PM]: make the needed choices to get
there
Zertaoul [3:49 PM]: even if the man himself is now only a
shadow?
Ninjassassin0 [3:49 PM]: by finding the light he will be
destroyed and remade, either in his former image, or remade
by those around him
Ninjassassin0 [3:50 PM]: thats why friends matter
Zertaoul [3:50 PM]: back to friends again
Zertaoul [3:50 PM]: its the ppl around us that shape who
we are
Zertaoul [3:50 PM]: we have ourselves, saying wat is us,
and what isn't
Ninjassassin0 [3:50 PM]: you choose to a great extent
which people affect you the most
Zertaoul [3:50 PM]: and we have genetic dispositions
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: but choice overpowers all
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: I have a genetic disposition to
smoking
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: its on my dad's side
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: do I smoke?
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: no
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: I made the choice not to
Ninjassassin0 [3:51 PM]: I was taught that doing ANY sort
of thing before marrige was an abomonation
Ninjassassin0 [3:52 PM]: I didn't make a choice on it.
Ninjassassin0 [3:52 PM]: look what happened
Ninjassassin0 [3:52 PM]: I shattered
Zertaoul [3:52 PM]: aye, and i made a choice
Zertaoul [3:52 PM]: we all make choices
Zertaoul [3:52 PM]: and so did you
Zertaoul [3:53 PM]: you choose to wait until the moment
Zertaoul [3:53 PM]: then at that time, choose what felt
right
Ninjassassin0 [3:53 PM]: but what I knew was wrong
Ninjassassin0 [3:53 PM]: I didn't make a choice to do
something
Ninjassassin0 [3:53 PM]: I chose to put my choices in
everybody else
Zertaoul [3:53 PM]: and how was that?
Ninjassassin0 [3:54 PM]: I gave up my force of will
Zertaoul [3:54 PM]: did somebody else choose what you
would do w/ her before you actually got married?
Zertaoul [3:54 PM]: you gave up your force of will?
Ninjassassin0 [3:54 PM]: I said "here, you decide"
Ninjassassin0 [3:54 PM]: I made a choice to do that
Zertaoul [3:54 PM]: exactly
Zertaoul [3:55 PM]: you made a decision - lets see what
she wants
Zertaoul [3:55 PM]: then you made another decision - at
some level you agreed w/, or at least wanted, what was
about to happen
Ninjassassin0 [3:55 PM]: no, I made the descision "She
will have anything she wants" not lets see
Ninjassassin0 [3:56 PM]: heh, thinking of a response?
Zertaoul [3:56 PM]: no
Zertaoul [3:56 PM]: i've already thought of one
Zertaoul [3:56 PM]: you indeed did say anything she
wants
Zertaoul [3:56 PM]: but at the same time
Ninjassassin0 [3:56 PM]: the 'Zerataul is typing' keept
flashing, you'er lying
Zertaoul [3:56 PM]: did you know what she wanted before
she asked?
Ninjassassin0 [3:56 PM]: no
Zertaoul [3:57 PM]: then you waited to see before you
went to get whatever she wanted
Zertaoul [3:57 PM]: and so
Ninjassassin0 [3:57 PM]: no, I gave her control over what
happined
Ninjassassin0 [3:57 PM]: I never waited to see
Zertaoul [3:57 PM]: you never waited eh?
Zertaoul [3:57 PM]: well tristan, we return to your quote
of 'returning to the light'
Zertaoul [3:57 PM]: this is one of those times to come
out of the ligh
Zertaoul [3:57 PM]: light
Ninjassassin0 [3:57 PM]: out of?
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: sorry
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: into the light
Ninjassassin0 [3:58 PM]: heh, I've spent hours on the
brink of tears begging God for forgivemness
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: tell me this
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: FORGIVENESS FOR WHAT?!
Ninjassassin0 [3:58 PM]: Everything
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: everything?
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: well, if we sat long enough
Zertaoul [3:58 PM]: i'm sure we could blaim you for
everything
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: but i don't think that everything is
your fault
Ninjassassin0 [3:59 PM]: Correction, Everything I think
I've done wrong
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: ok
Ninjassassin0 [3:59 PM]: wait... that is everything...
CRAP!
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: oh?
Ninjassassin0 [3:59 PM]: I only kidding
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: everything, eh?
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: better beyou little monkey shit
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: cause frankly, out of everyone
Zertaoul [3:59 PM]: your probably the only gentleman
Zertaoul [4:00 PM]: taken from zack, alex, biggz, me, oz
Ninjassassin0 [4:00 PM]: heh, my sisters did a good job
of beating that into me
Zertaoul [4:00 PM]: indeed
Zertaoul [4:00 PM]: you did as a gentleman owuld
Zertaoul [4:00 PM]: now you need to stop and analyze what
happened
Ninjassassin0 [4:00 PM]: that doesn't stop what i did
from beiong sin in my religeons eyes
Zertaoul [4:01 PM]: man himself is sin
Ninjassassin0 [4:01 PM]: making out is a sin for us d00d
Zertaoul [4:01 PM]: oh i understand
Zertaoul [4:01 PM]: anything before marriage is a sin for
morman
Zertaoul [4:02 PM]: tristan
Zertaoul [4:02 PM]: there is really know nice way to say
this

I had to sign off afterwords and he forgot what he was
going to tell me.




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