Jencaero

Happy Noodle Boy Rox!
2002-04-22 06:06:44 (UTC)

abortion

iluvkillingtrees (12:17:43 AM): what's worth speaking
about for you?
Afipunkgodess (12:17:53 AM): i dont know. philosophy
Afipunkgodess (12:17:57 AM): abortion
Afipunkgodess (12:18:00 AM): things like that
iluvkillingtrees (12:18:09 AM): are you prolife?
Afipunkgodess (12:18:12 AM): yes.
Afipunkgodess (12:18:13 AM): and you?
iluvkillingtrees (12:18:15 AM): awe man
Afipunkgodess (12:18:18 AM): lol
iluvkillingtrees (12:18:21 AM): pro choice
Afipunkgodess (12:18:22 AM): death penalty too...
Afipunkgodess (12:18:24 AM): why?
iluvkillingtrees (12:18:26 AM): but I'm a guy
Afipunkgodess (12:18:27 AM): i dont understand it
iluvkillingtrees (12:18:28 AM): you know
Afipunkgodess (12:18:31 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:18:40 AM): why pro choice..?
iluvkillingtrees (12:18:51 AM): people have a right to
make thier own decisions...
Afipunkgodess (12:19:03 AM): but to make decisions for
others?
iluvkillingtrees (12:19:06 AM): I'm into people making as
many coices a possible...
Afipunkgodess (12:19:21 AM): but making a choice of life
or death about someone else!?
iluvkillingtrees (12:19:22 AM): not limiting them even
when it comes to death
iluvkillingtrees (12:19:35 AM): ye
Afipunkgodess (12:19:41 AM): i dont think that choice
should be available without consequence.
Afipunkgodess (12:19:57 AM): there is a CHOICE i could
make to, say, kill my brother.
iluvkillingtrees (12:20:05 AM): I don't see an embryo as
person... especially if it's not loved as one by the mom
or dad
Afipunkgodess (12:20:12 AM): if i make a choice in favor
of it, then there are consequences
Afipunkgodess (12:20:18 AM): its still a person if its
loved.
Afipunkgodess (12:20:29 AM): but with abortion, if you
kill there are no consequences
Afipunkgodess (12:20:34 AM): its action without consequence
iluvkillingtrees (12:20:42 AM): well I don't feel like I
have a right to make decissions for other people...
Afipunkgodess (12:21:06 AM): wait.
iluvkillingtrees (12:21:07 AM): some of my friends have
had abortions...
Afipunkgodess (12:21:12 AM): first youre saying decisions
are good
Afipunkgodess (12:21:22 AM): then youre saying that you
dont have the right to them
iluvkillingtrees (12:21:23 AM): for the individule...
Afipunkgodess (12:21:30 AM): but you are an individual
iluvkillingtrees (12:21:42 AM): I don't have a right to
make decsisions for others
Afipunkgodess (12:21:46 AM): exactly!
Afipunkgodess (12:22:02 AM): then why should others have a
right to make decisions for others!/
Afipunkgodess (12:22:03 AM): ?
Afipunkgodess (12:22:22 AM): why should someone else
determine a childs existence.
iluvkillingtrees (12:22:54 AM): well right now abortion is
a crude practice eventually it won't be so hardcore... a
girl can take a super pill and kill the zygote before it
ever becomes a fetus or an embryo
Afipunkgodess (12:23:12 AM): but its the whole concept
iluvkillingtrees (12:23:34 AM): just consider it as a
later step of birth controll, wich is what it is...
Afipunkgodess (12:23:43 AM): answer this: do you think if
someone makes a mistake, they should be willing to pay the
consequences?
iluvkillingtrees (12:24:07 AM): yes and know...
Afipunkgodess (12:24:13 AM): which one
iluvkillingtrees (12:24:29 AM): it depends on what the
penaltys are for the mistake they've made
Afipunkgodess (12:24:38 AM): okay.
iluvkillingtrees (12:24:48 AM): some of our penalties are
insane...
Afipunkgodess (12:24:51 AM): well well say person x and
person y have sex.
Afipunkgodess (12:24:58 AM): personz is not formed right
Afipunkgodess (12:25:05 AM): person z is a consequence
Afipunkgodess (12:25:11 AM): of person x and y having sex.
Afipunkgodess (12:25:24 AM): its not right for x and y to
just ELIMANATE person z , now is it?
Afipunkgodess (12:25:52 AM): *eliminate
Afipunkgodess (12:26:20 AM): god. cant spell
iluvkillingtrees (12:26:27 AM): if it's what they want...
it is... person X and Y are responsible for Z, and they
have the right to make life and death decissions over Z,
since they are it's creators...
Afipunkgodess (12:26:40 AM): your parents are your creators
iluvkillingtrees (12:26:44 AM): yep
Afipunkgodess (12:26:47 AM): do you think its fair if they
kill you?
Afipunkgodess (12:26:50 AM): right now?
iluvkillingtrees (12:26:53 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:27:00 AM): seriously
Afipunkgodess (12:27:03 AM): its the same thing, isnt it
Afipunkgodess (12:27:05 AM): youre just older.
iluvkillingtrees (12:27:26 AM): I don't know... I kind of
think yes, but I also think no
iluvkillingtrees (12:27:38 AM): I'm crazy though
Afipunkgodess (12:27:41 AM): lol
iluvkillingtrees (12:27:46 AM): you know this
Afipunkgodess (12:27:47 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:28:00 AM): im sorry i just dont
understand the whole pro choice thing
iluvkillingtrees (12:28:32 AM): I agree that life is good
under good circumstances but I also think life can be bad
under bad circumstances...
Afipunkgodess (12:28:37 AM): yeah
Afipunkgodess (12:28:39 AM): but life is life
Afipunkgodess (12:28:43 AM): isnt it?
iluvkillingtrees (12:28:48 AM): errr
iluvkillingtrees (12:29:06 AM): what if a girl is raped,
can she have an abortion?
Afipunkgodess (12:29:11 AM): no.
iluvkillingtrees (12:29:14 AM): wow
Afipunkgodess (12:29:15 AM): there are pills you can take
Afipunkgodess (12:29:19 AM): if you get raped
Afipunkgodess (12:29:30 AM): to keep the child from
developing
Afipunkgodess (12:29:37 AM): to keep from getting pregnant
iluvkillingtrees (12:29:53 AM): can person Y take this
pill if she gets pregnant?
Afipunkgodess (12:30:00 AM): yes
Afipunkgodess (12:30:05 AM): what
iluvkillingtrees (12:30:08 AM): is this pill ok
Afipunkgodess (12:30:17 AM): if its killing anything no.
Afipunkgodess (12:30:23 AM): if its preventing conception,
yes
iluvkillingtrees (12:30:38 AM): man... but things die...
Afipunkgodess (12:30:41 AM): yes.
Afipunkgodess (12:30:47 AM): but they dont deserve to be
killed
iluvkillingtrees (12:30:54 AM): I think you have a problem
with the concept of death...
Afipunkgodess (12:30:57 AM): could i kill you
Afipunkgodess (12:31:03 AM): and then justify it
iluvkillingtrees (12:31:07 AM): maybe
iluvkillingtrees (12:31:09 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:31:10 AM): by saying that you were going
to die anyways?
Afipunkgodess (12:31:12 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:31:25 AM): its like a false justification
iluvkillingtrees (12:31:44 AM): hmm... well that's a long
stretch... but a good lawyer might be able to pull that off
Afipunkgodess (12:31:51 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:31:59 AM): not in life. but in truth in
concept
iluvkillingtrees (12:32:39 AM): I think death is for an
unborn fetus... especially at such an early period of
development... at that time your just a collection of stem
cells anyhow...
iluvkillingtrees (12:32:57 AM): well is ok...
Afipunkgodess (12:33:08 AM): yes, but by the time you find
out youre pregnant the childs already developed
Afipunkgodess (12:33:10 AM): all organs
Afipunkgodess (12:33:20 AM): all vestiges or whatever
theyre called
Afipunkgodess (12:33:25 AM): brain
Afipunkgodess (12:33:28 AM): nervous system
Afipunkgodess (12:33:31 AM): everythings there
Afipunkgodess (12:33:39 AM): very small but still there
Afipunkgodess (12:33:42 AM): and it can feel too.
iluvkillingtrees (12:34:41 AM): well I say don't worry
about it untill it happens to you.... the friends that I
know who have had children, they had them because they
we're married or they wanted them... the ones that didn't
want the child had abortions...
Afipunkgodess (12:34:58 AM): i know. im not condemning
your friends
Afipunkgodess (12:35:09 AM): i just think that abortion
isnt the right way to take things
Afipunkgodess (12:35:13 AM): at this moment in time
Afipunkgodess (12:35:15 AM): from what ive seen
Afipunkgodess (12:35:27 AM): and im all for womans rights
and shit
Afipunkgodess (12:35:31 AM): but the right to kill
iluvkillingtrees (12:35:36 AM): they didn't have the money
for giving the child a good home and they werent ready to
be a mom or dad, maybe the child is better off...
Afipunkgodess (12:35:39 AM): is not one to bestow upon
people lightly
Afipunkgodess (12:35:45 AM): no.
Afipunkgodess (12:35:50 AM): i dont think anythings better
off dead.
Afipunkgodess (12:35:55 AM): maybe adopted.
iluvkillingtrees (12:36:12 AM): what about hopelessly
retarted or handicaped children...
iluvkillingtrees (12:36:13 AM): ?
iluvkillingtrees (12:36:22 AM): ones born quadropalegics...
iluvkillingtrees (12:36:27 AM): without arms or legs?
Afipunkgodess (12:36:29 AM): so
Afipunkgodess (12:36:35 AM): they still deserve life!
Afipunkgodess (12:36:41 AM): everyone in life goes through
pain
iluvkillingtrees (12:36:45 AM): you're such purist
Afipunkgodess (12:36:49 AM): just because its there doesnt
mean lifes not worth living
Afipunkgodess (12:36:51 AM): whats a purist?
iluvkillingtrees (12:37:08 AM): pure of thought
Afipunkgodess (12:37:18 AM): what is that
Afipunkgodess (12:37:21 AM): i still dont get it.
Afipunkgodess (12:37:35 AM): isnt that something that youd
want?
Afipunkgodess (12:37:36 AM): i dont think i am
Afipunkgodess (12:37:44 AM): but you say it like its
terrible
iluvkillingtrees (12:37:53 AM): I don't mean that in a bad
way
Afipunkgodess (12:38:13 AM): just a statement
Afipunkgodess (12:38:15 AM): ohkay

iluvkillingtrees (12:38:58 AM): it's sounds like you don't
think its right for people to make decsions over their own
body...
iluvkillingtrees (12:39:09 AM): whether that's good or bad
decision...

Afipunkgodess (12:39:19 AM): its not their body!
Afipunkgodess (12:39:22 AM): its another persons body1
iluvkillingtrees (12:39:26 AM): awe man
Afipunkgodess (12:39:44 AM): im down with them making
decisions for themselves
iluvkillingtrees (12:39:56 AM): if you remove said organim
from the womans body it will die without her...
Afipunkgodess (12:40:18 AM): your point.
Afipunkgodess (12:40:26 AM): if you remove a child from
its parents
Afipunkgodess (12:40:30 AM): it will most likely also die
iluvkillingtrees (12:40:38 AM): since it's apart of her
and needs her for fudemental growth... it's her's...
iluvkillingtrees (12:40:46 AM): by life or death... it's
hers
Afipunkgodess (12:40:50 AM): no.
Afipunkgodess (12:40:57 AM): its itself
Afipunkgodess (12:41:04 AM): when you were a child
Afipunkgodess (12:41:10 AM): you were pretty dependent on
your parents
Afipunkgodess (12:41:17 AM): hell even now a little right
Afipunkgodess (12:41:17 AM): ?
iluvkillingtrees (12:41:24 AM): my life and death were in
their hands...
Afipunkgodess (12:41:25 AM): does that make you theirs?
iluvkillingtrees (12:41:37 AM): since I'm on my own
now... my life is my own
Afipunkgodess (12:41:49 AM): ah, but no one encourages
them to kill you
Afipunkgodess (12:41:53 AM): to eliminate them
iluvkillingtrees (12:41:54 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:41:55 AM): *you
Afipunkgodess (12:42:10 AM): if you got killed by them as
a child, theyd get in big trouble.
Afipunkgodess (12:42:12 AM): there are laws...
iluvkillingtrees (12:43:26 AM): I don't know... I saw this
special on neanderthaw man, (spelled wrong), and they said
that it wasint uncommon for a tribe to kill a newborn baby
when they had little food to go around during winter...
they maid hard decisons...
Afipunkgodess (12:43:48 AM): are we neanderthals?
Afipunkgodess (12:44:02 AM): arent we supposed to be
a "civilized" people?
Afipunkgodess (12:44:11 AM): and yet we are so barbaric as
to kill our youth
Afipunkgodess (12:44:15 AM): not even for food
Afipunkgodess (12:44:20 AM): but for mere convenience.

iluvkillingtrees (12:44:32 AM): we are animals with better
technology but we are still animals... some moms don't
make good moms... and not everyone can be a mom or a
dad... however they might try...
Afipunkgodess (12:44:53 AM): okay. solution: adoption
Afipunkgodess (12:45:06 AM): solution: raise them anyways.
a chance at life is better than no life at all.
iluvkillingtrees (12:45:49 AM): dude those are hard
decisons...
Afipunkgodess (12:45:59 AM): what are?
iluvkillingtrees (12:46:03 AM): it's for the mom to decide
if she wants to be a mom...
Afipunkgodess (12:46:18 AM): yeah. but dont you see
Afipunkgodess (12:46:22 AM): she already did
Afipunkgodess (12:46:25 AM): when she had sex
iluvkillingtrees (12:46:29 AM): also it's her decision on
whether or not she wants her child floating around in the
horrible adoption system...
Afipunkgodess (12:46:34 AM): she accepted that she was
ready
Afipunkgodess (12:46:38 AM): that she could handle it
Afipunkgodess (12:46:47 AM): she placed the responsibility
upon herself to do that
Afipunkgodess (12:47:14 AM): and to take care of
consequences, not by elimanating them
Afipunkgodess (12:47:30 AM): at least there WILL be a child
iluvkillingtrees (12:47:43 AM): she may have maid a
mistake... how can you say it's ok for her be punished
with the difficulties of raising a child...
Afipunkgodess (12:47:55 AM): what do you mean
Afipunkgodess (12:48:05 AM): should the child be punished
for hter mistake then?

Afipunkgodess (12:48:09 AM): with death!!?
iluvkillingtrees (12:48:19 AM): well its hard to raise a
child... especialy if your in school...
iluvkillingtrees (12:48:23 AM): or a single parent...


Afipunkgodess (12:48:09 AM): with death!!?
iluvkillingtrees (12:48:19 AM): well its hard to raise a
child... especialy if your in school...
iluvkillingtrees (12:48:23 AM): or a single parent...
Afipunkgodess (12:48:36 AM): shouldve thought of that
before having sex.
iluvkillingtrees (12:48:40 AM): for some people it's an
impossible task...
Afipunkgodess (12:48:46 AM): nothings impossible
Afipunkgodess (12:48:58 AM): there are rare exceptions.
Afipunkgodess (12:49:02 AM): again, adoption
Afipunkgodess (12:49:06 AM): or something
iluvkillingtrees (12:49:11 AM): would you do that?
Afipunkgodess (12:49:16 AM): because life is valuable
Afipunkgodess (12:49:18 AM): would i do what?
iluvkillingtrees (12:49:24 AM): give your child to
adoption if you could raise it?
Afipunkgodess (12:49:29 AM): with abortion, there is no
value to life.
Afipunkgodess (12:49:34 AM): if i could raise it id raise
it
iluvkillingtrees (12:49:43 AM): but if you couldn't what
would you do?
Afipunkgodess (12:49:56 AM): if i absolutely could not
raise it, as a last resort i would give it up for adoption
yes.
iluvkillingtrees (12:50:05 AM): you would rather watch
this child be raised by others...
iluvkillingtrees (12:50:10 AM): wouldn't you feel terrible?

iluvkillingtrees (12:50:36 AM): I would feel like such a
loser if that happened to me...
Afipunkgodess (12:50:40 AM): i would feel worse
Afipunkgodess (12:50:44 AM): if i killed an innocent being
iluvkillingtrees (12:50:48 AM): I would feel like a
failure at being a man...
Afipunkgodess (12:51:00 AM): ah, and you wouldnt if you
killed the child?
Afipunkgodess (12:51:15 AM): and there ARE studies saying
that so many people who have abortions suffer pas
Afipunkgodess (12:51:19 AM): post abortion syndrome
Afipunkgodess (12:51:27 AM): where there are all the
psychological effects.
iluvkillingtrees (12:51:32 AM): to me it's not a child
untill it's breathing fresh air with it's own two lungs
Afipunkgodess (12:51:44 AM): people who undergo abortion
are more likely to get fucked up then those who dont.
Afipunkgodess (12:51:46 AM): why?
Afipunkgodess (12:51:48 AM): how?
Afipunkgodess (12:51:53 AM): its still living far before
then
Afipunkgodess (12:51:58 AM): its developed before then
Afipunkgodess (12:52:09 AM): are you saying in its
dependence, it doesnt have a right to life?
iluvkillingtrees (12:52:33 AM): it just isn't... untill
it's born I view it as apart of the mom... as an extra
organ or something... like an unwrapped present...
Afipunkgodess (12:52:48 AM): because of what?
Afipunkgodess (12:52:54 AM): because of its dependence?
iluvkillingtrees (12:53:00 AM): because it's not
sperated...
Afipunkgodess (12:53:03 AM): so.
iluvkillingtrees (12:53:04 AM): yes
Afipunkgodess (12:53:05 AM): its still there
Afipunkgodess (12:53:06 AM): though
Afipunkgodess (12:53:08 AM): its still there
iluvkillingtrees (12:53:12 AM): I don't know why I just do

iluvkillingtrees (12:53:35 AM): it's a growing child until
it's born... then it's a child
Afipunkgodess (12:53:43 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:53:47 AM): and it doesnt grow after that?
iluvkillingtrees (12:53:49 AM): I'm sorry
iluvkillingtrees (12:53:56 AM): ye...
Afipunkgodess (12:53:58 AM): why?
Afipunkgodess (12:54:02 AM): why sorry
Afipunkgodess (12:54:07 AM): its your belief...
Afipunkgodess (12:54:12 AM): dont be sorry
iluvkillingtrees (12:54:16 AM): I feel like you want me to
believe as you do... and I don't
Afipunkgodess (12:54:22 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:54:27 AM): in all truth yes
Afipunkgodess (12:54:31 AM): but dont apologize for it
Afipunkgodess (12:54:56 AM): just try to look at it my way
for a minute. if you have fine. if you havent... open up
Afipunkgodess (12:55:04 AM): ive tried seeing it the other
way
Afipunkgodess (12:55:06 AM): it doesnt seem to fit
Afipunkgodess (12:55:11 AM): it doesnt seem
rightAfipunkgodess (12:55:32 AM): i mean its just this gut
feeling i guess
Afipunkgodess (12:55:51 AM): and i cant get rid of it. to
me its wrong and i have to do something about it.
Afipunkgodess (12:55:54 AM): sorry
iluvkillingtrees (12:56:03 AM): why are you sorry?
iluvkillingtrees (12:56:06 AM): damn it...
iluvkillingtrees (12:56:12 AM): we don't have to both be
sorry

Afipunkgodess (12:56:24 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:56:31 AM): i could debate on and on
Afipunkgodess (12:56:34 AM): and on
Afipunkgodess (12:56:36 AM): and never stop
iluvkillingtrees (12:56:37 AM): no... I respect life... as
you do...
iluvkillingtrees (12:56:45 AM): but I also respect death...
Afipunkgodess (12:56:53 AM): do you urge itupon others?
Afipunkgodess (12:56:59 AM): it comes. naturally. just as
life does
Afipunkgodess (12:57:05 AM): 'tis not to be imposed on
others

iluvkillingtrees (12:57:35 AM): Jennifer
iluvkillingtrees (12:57:36 AM): errr
iluvkillingtrees (12:57:44 AM): is it two n's?
Afipunkgodess (12:57:47 AM): yes
iluvkillingtrees (12:57:52 AM): Jennifer
Afipunkgodess (12:57:55 AM): what
iluvkillingtrees (12:57:56 AM): damn

Afipunkgodess (12:58:35 AM): no.
Afipunkgodess (12:58:37 AM): speakl
Afipunkgodess (12:58:39 AM): persuade
Afipunkgodess (12:58:50 AM): get people who agree
Afipunkgodess (12:58:53 AM): and try to show other people
Afipunkgodess (12:59:08 AM): try to make them look at a
different perspective.

iluvkillingtrees (12:59:16 AM): I also think if people
have taken it that far, then they allready messed up...
Afipunkgodess (12:59:23 AM): how far?

iluvkillingtrees (12:59:26 AM): their are so many std's
out there its nuts
iluvkillingtrees (12:59:39 AM): having unprotected sex
Afipunkgodess (12:59:42 AM): if i blew up an abortion
clinic, that would be totaly ummm disproving my life.
Afipunkgodess (12:59:44 AM): i know
Afipunkgodess (12:59:47 AM): there are
iluvkillingtrees (12:59:48 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:59:57 AM): *lifes value
Afipunkgodess (12:59:59 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (12:59:59 AM): lol
Afipunkgodess (1:00:35 AM): because seriously ive been
thinking about my opinion on this abortion thing since i
was about 11
iluvkillingtrees (1:00:43 AM): wow, why?
Afipunkgodess (1:00:45 AM): i mean really thinking
Afipunkgodess (1:00:46 AM): i dont know
Afipunkgodess (1:00:50 AM): i just did
Afipunkgodess (1:00:53 AM): /do
Afipunkgodess (1:00:54 AM): not good
Afipunkgodess (1:01:06 AM): because it seems important
Afipunkgodess (1:01:11 AM): so many have died
Afipunkgodess (1:01:15 AM): millions die each year
Afipunkgodess (1:01:15 AM): so
Afipunkgodess (1:01:16 AM): ...


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